Dom On Religion (Dominic and Friends)

QUOTE

Dominic Monaghan is tired ( the jetlag ), a little sleepy ( the nap ) and unshaven ( the Lost-Style ). In a black pullover and green baggy pants he lingers (?) on a sofa in his berlin hotelroom drinking coke and nibbling nervously on the dark-red nailpolish on his pinky. Dom is in Berlin, his native city for the big "Lost"Party with ProSieben and BRAVO tonight.

BRAVO:Your name is Dominic Bernard Patrick Luke. What parents give their child four (first)names?DOM: Only three are from my parents. They liked Dominic, Bernard is my mum's dad and Patrick my dad's.

BRAVO: And Luke?
DOM:I went to a latin-catholic school and was forced to be baptized and confirmed. And for the confirmation you have to chose a new name. I wanted to be called Han. Like Han Solo from Star Wars.
But unfortunatley I wasnt allowed to. The priest said that would be blasphemy. So I asked:"Can i chose Chewbacca?". He said No. So in the end i chose Luke. I nearly wasnt allowed that one as well, cos naturally everyone knew that i wanted to the name because of Luke Skywalker. But i told them, the holy luke had always been inspiring me and so on.. so it worked.

BRAVO:Forced to be confirmed? That doesnt exactly sound like a religious person.
DOM: I always had huge problems with authorities, like teachers. And what i've always been detesting, is organised religion. As a child i hated the church. I didnt like their rules and found their ideas and beliefs stupid. But my parents sent me to a religious school, where we had to pray everyday and where we had bible-lessons. That made me even more rebelious.

BRAVO: How do you see religion today?
DOM: I consider the belief im god as rubbish. Nothing but lies. Religious people believe that there is a talking snake on a tree in garden eden and that we all descend from Adam and Eve. But they don't believe in evolution. Ridiculous. I've been living in the USA for 4 years now-a ghastly "god-fearing"(?) nation, where every big actor, singer or sportsstar arises at an award show and first of all thanks god. But at the same time americans march into other countries in the name of the religion. I think, if there is a god, he has to be very dissapointed that people abuse his name to kill people. I prefer the idea of controlling my own fate.

BRAVO: With your rebelious natur, i'm surprised that you were caught shoplifting only once.
DOM: Many kids steal.

BRAVO: Why did you do it?
DOM: I never had enough money. My parents showed me the value of money, in giving me barely any. I never had enough money to pay for my school-bus. I had to walk. But I "dealt". I bought candy in the morning and sold them higher priced.From the benefit I bought new stuff. I was a great dealer.

BRAVO: Also for drugs?
DOM: No, just legal stuff like food or comics.

BRAVO: Were you a popular person?
DOM: Not with the teachers. I always played pranks on them. But with the other kids, yes. I was the clown, i made them all laugh.

BRAVO: ANd how did it go with the girls?
DOM: Not bad. I deliberatly founded a drama-group to impress girls.

BRAVO: Did you experience embarrasing rejections?
DOM: Fortunatley not very often. But when something was really embarrassing, i "dispossessed" myself from those "shame-demons", how i call them, by telling everyone about it. That was the only thing that worked; Just tell all your friends about it.

BRAVO: Why?
DOM: When you swallow these embarrassements, you'll eventually be ashamed of being ashamed. It becomes something that you cannot talk about. You desperatly want to forget, but you can't.
I sometimes just boldly went to girls, asked the for a date and been rejected horribly. So i had to go back to my table with all my friends and confess. "She didnt even talk to me." That happends to anyone. One of the fairest thing to tell your mates is:"Don't bother, i went through more embarrassing stuff!"

BRAVO: Does your first time also belong to the category of "embarrassements"?
DOM: In some way yes. I did it, because i wanted to get over with it. That was stupid of me. I wish I could reverse that.

BRAVO:Why?
DOM: I can simply tell everybody: Chose the right person. Think about it, like deciding over a tattoo. Decide, but think a few months about it, if it really is the right decision. The first time is one of the few things in life, where you can afford it, not to hurry.

BRAVO: And who taught you how to kiss?
DOM: Tom Cruise

BRAVO:Whaaaat?
DOM At first I snogged the back of my hand for hours. Then I tried it on a pillow. But then i saw a video of "Top Gun" with Tom Cruise and Kelly McGillis. In one scene they make out. And i thaught: WOW, thats what the ultimate kiss must look like. I wrote every detail in my journal. In points from one to five.

BRAVO So did it work for the first kiss?
DOM:It was ok. I enjoyed it. Its just weird. You don't know if you're making it right. But I think, when you have fun doing it, you're doing it right. There no complaints so far."

What do you think everyone :thinky: :devil2: Thanks to Pat for posting this up.

Thankies! Some interesting insights in the life of Dom... like wanting to be named after Han Solo and ending up with Luke: teehee!
I must say I'm on the same path as Dom when he's talking about religion. But I'm not sure if you want to have a discussion about religious beliefs...

What ever is good <lol> . I agree with Dom that organised religion is the worst aspect of humanity in so many ways, its suppressive and acts superior, its also the biggest thing after money that causes so many of the world’s problems. :( :mad7:

That said I have no problem with individual religion on a basic level, it should always come down to you and your god, so why some people feel the need to force their beliefs on others is beyond me.

I suppose in the end it comes down to a simple choice, do you want to be truly free to do as you want and hope that there isn’t a god at the end of all things, or follow a set of beliefs that hurt people, but still without evidence that a god is waiting for you at the end of it all.

One thing I'm not sure on... Do Christians really not believe in evolution? Because if Adam and Eve were the only humans doesn’t that mean they had to have committed incest over and over to get to where we are today? :thinky: :thinky:

I did laugh a few times with the Tom Cruise stuff, cant you just picture Dom sitting there watching it over and over taking notes. :die:

Don't get me started on what I do and what I don't believe. What I do want to share is that if you're good at heart (and only the person itself can know that) and there is a heaven, you get into it. Even if you never believed in god in the first place.

That Han Solo bit made me laugh so much. It's funny stuff.

haha.. that Top Gun scene was pretty hot.

If Dom kisses like that.. :dead:

QUOTE (Knuxs @ Aug 7 2005, 04:44 PM)

One thing I'm not sure on... Do Christians really not believe in evolution? Because if Adam and Eve were the only humans doesn’t that mean they had to have committed incest over and over to get to where we are today? :thinky: :thinky:

I have heard from my former flatmate (Christian with heart and soul, doesn't even read Harry Potter) that there were other people outside the Garden of Eden. These people weren't created to the likeness of God as Adam (and hence Eve). But they were people and so Adam and Eve and their sons and daughters could procreate with the help of those other people. Get my drift?

I still have the new Dutch Bible translation wrapped in plastic in my bookcloset. I got a copy from my parents and I do want to read it. I'm more a personal believer than a member of an organised religion. When it comes to it there's spirituality and religion in almost everything. I've just finished reading Chronicles of Narnia, and Aslan is just like a god who gives hope and who people have to really believe in to get through their adventures unharmed. That sometimes scares me, like you have to believe in a god to make something of this life and be allowed in a next life. :unsure:

I’m more confused that ever now :red: ! I thought Adam and Eve were the first and only humans created by god, if there are other people around where the heck did they come from?

Hee hee, while tidying my room I found an old bible that some one had forced on us at school once… I read the intro and it said “this book has been given to you on the promise that you read it everyday”, I thought for a bit. Then destroyed the book.

Further to that I decided I don’t want a “Christian funeral” over here its pretty much the norm, have a vicar and all. I think it would be hypocritical of me to have a “goodbye” that is grounded in something that is so bad for people, and plainly it doesn’t reflect who I am.

Weirdly, death doesn’t seem all that scary anymore. (Rolly)

#haha# at the Top Gun thing.

#haha# at the name thing

:thinky: at the Adam and Eve thing

and i have a little bible. i got confused at all the begotting (?) at the start. but its still around.

meh

I was raised in a traditional way also. But I just couldn't get passed that
whole thing of, "if you do bad things God will punish you, but he loves
you. Or, you have to be God fearing, if he loves you why should you
fear him?" I guess that's why I'm now Wiccan. We don't belive in the
devil, so we can't say, "The Devil made me do it." we take responsability
for our own actions. And one of the best things is we don't have to give
anyone any money.

QUOTE

I have heard from my former flatmate (Christian with heart and soul, doesn't even read Harry Potter) that there were other people outside the Garden of Eden. These people weren't created to the likeness of God as Adam (and hence Eve). But they were people and so Adam and Eve and their sons and daughters could procreate with the help of those other people. Get my drift?

ive never heard that one before. :thinky:

to me religion is somethng that i was kind of forced into too. i went to Catholic church and it was all a blur. im not one of those scientologist like Tom Cruise but i believe in the scientific way of how we were created (but i believe in God too.) something that has always puzzled me was how Catholic people can believe that dinosaurs existed (Ive met someone who didnt believe that dinosaurs once existed and i wanted to SLAP him!!!! i used to want to be paleontologist. lol), but also believe that God created us and the earth all in one week...its all really complicated for me. because i WANT to believe every word the bible says, but im too much of a logical thinker. i hope i get this all figured out eventually.

LOVE the interview!!!! omg! Dom practicing kissing on his hand and a pillow! that is so cute! :hee:

About Adam and Eve: it could be that I'm mixing up a lot of stories now, but I thought that outside of Eden there were other people made my God, but not after his likeness. So they were heathens I guess...
But this is one of those stories that hasn't made it into the Bible, it's more of a backstory. So it could be created just for the sake of explaining how Adam and Eve could be the parents of the world population..

I absolutely don't know for sure. I'm not a theologist and I'm not planning on becoming one. :unsure:

QUOTE (Faolan @ Aug 8 2005, 03:21 PM)

I was raised in a traditional way also. But I just couldn't get passed that
whole thing of, "if you do bad things God will punish you, but he loves
you. Or, you have to be God fearing, if he loves you why should you
fear him?" I guess that's why I'm now Wiccan. We don't belive in the
devil, so we can't say, "The Devil made me do it." we take responsability
for our own actions. And one of the best things is we don't have to give
anyone any money.

Wican things have always interested me, the “followers” seem much more calm about things but to be honest I hardly know anything about it, could you give us a mini crash course sometime? (Rolly)

This article shows the extent some people are willing to go to in order to uphold their religion.

This link contains disturbing images of an execution of basically children please think carefully before deciding to read it.

I don’t know anywhere in the bible where it says gay people should be murdered, and to murder people who are so young, that muct be a bigger crime than simpley loving. It just seems like people choosing their own interpretations of an overrated book. :mad7:

I studied theology for two years and truthfully it was a lot of fun. But ultimately it wasn’t a scientific subject, no joke of a lie you could go round in circles trying to prove something of nothing and still end up with something crazy. :craze1:

Example:

(a) god is the most powerful thing in the world.

To exist is a power that also belongs to an all powerful being (i.e. god)

A god that exists in only the mind is not as powerful as a god that exists in reality.

Conclusion, god therefore must exist in order for him to be all powerful.

Yes I agree that’s most logical :YES: . But the first premise isn’t a fact; we can’t know that god even exists in the first place. Boom your back to the start and around we go again. Its enough to give anyone a headache.

wow. i cant believe that! its so stupid and unfair. i didnt know that being in love was a crime. and one punishable by death.

Well as for a crash course in Wicca, here goes.
Insted of one god[male] there are, the God and Goddess. If you
look at nature, nothing can be created without male, and female.
So why not diety. Plants, animals, and people all come in male and
female form. [yes, plants too. other wise no polination] In Wicca, the
female is regarded a little higher than the male, because she is the
one who brings forth new life. In ancient times women were the ones
who knew when to do the planting, how to heal, they were the mid-
wives, and so forth. The men were the protectors, and hunters.
Wiccans belive every thing is sacred. No one is below another.
We do not discriminate against race, colour, or sexual orientation.
All people have value. We belive in live and let live, as long as you
don't hurt others. And what goes around comes around. If you do
a kind deed, something good will happen for you. Likewise, if you do
an ill deed, something bad will happen to you. Karma.
Well that's the basics. Any other questions, just drop me a line, I'll be glad
to do what I can to ansewr as best as I can.
Faolan

wow. reading that article was kind of a turn off. not about the han solo and the tom cruise part though. thats the 1st thing that made me not like dom more. i disagree with everything he believes. yall might not want to go into a religous disscussion, but i do, because i feel sostrongly about it. i believe that there is a God, he loves us, but he is a just God in that if you do something wrong, he punishes it. He is omnipresent, and he knows everything, and he is real, right now. He just as real as when he created adam and eve. I believe that Jesus was the Son of God and that he came to earth and died on the cross for our sins, and rose again the thrid day. I read my bible and pray everyday, not because i have to, but because i want to. God is so great and so mighty and he didnt have to love us. He chose to come and save us. He would still be the same great, just, and loving God that he is now if he didnt come and save us and sent us all to hell. because if you arent saved, thats where your going when you die. We dont deserve to go to heaven. we deserve death and hell for our sins. John 3:16 'For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him shall be saved.' You may think, 'oh well, i havent murdered anyone, and im a good person, so i think im going to heaven. In Romans 3:10 it says 'As it is written, There is none righteous, no not one.' and Romans 3:23 says 'For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God.' then romans 5:8 says 'But God so commendeth his love for us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.' For the wages of sin is DEATH, BUT the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 2 seconds after you die it isnt gonna matter what you wore to work, it isnt gonna matter what car you drove or who you know. The only thing thats gonna matter is if you know Jesus Christ. After death, it is an eternity. Think of eternity like this: It begins when a little sparrow takes a mouth full of water from the Gulf of Mexico and flys to the moon. it takes it 58 years to get there. it flys back. it gets another mouthfull of water. It does this untill every drop of water on this earth is gone and put on the moon. Then that sparrow takes a mouthfull of the water on the moon and flys to earth and puts that water on the ground and starts all over again. that is just the beginning of eternity. would you want to be in eternal torment? or with God being so happy and with no worries at all? all you have to do is Believe in him, that he died for you and if you were the only sinnner in the ENTIRE world, he wouldve done the same thing. heres a prayer you can pray if you believe this and you want him to save you:

Dear Jesus,
Forgive me of my sins.
Come into my heart today.
I trust you to take me to heaven when i die.
Thank your for saving me.
Help me to live for you,
Amen.

and if you really meant that and prayed it, your now saved. there is such a peace that you feel, and its amazing. its nothing like it.

and if everybody here thinks this is rubbish and doesnt believe it, i dont think i should stay on this board anymore.

that was quite a statement kimberly. i really admire people who are that in touch with God. that makes me want to go ask my mom if we can start going to church again. i need to start figuring some stuff out...

and doint wait to long. you arent garunteed your next heart beat. statistics tell us that someone your age in history has died. say your 18 years 6 months and 3 days old. someone 18 years 6 months and 3 days old. life is too short

QUOTE (Kimberly_Monaghan @ Aug 9 2005, 09:03 PM)

wow. reading that article was kind of a turn off. not about the han solo and the tom cruise part though. thats the 1st thing that made me not like dom more. i disagree with everything he believes. yall might not want to go into a religous disscussion, but i do, because i feel sostrongly about it. i believe that there is a God, he loves us, but he is a just God in that if you do something wrong, he punishes it. He is omnipresent, and he knows everything, and he is real, right now. He just as real as when he created adam and eve. I believe that Jesus was the Son of God and that he came to earth and died on the cross for our sins, and rose again the thrid day. I read my bible and pray everyday, not because i have to, but because i want to. God is so great and so mighty and he didnt have to love us. He chose to come and save us. He would still be the same great, just, and loving God that he is now if he didnt come and save us and sent us all to hell. because if you arent saved, thats where your going when you die. We dont deserve to go to heaven. we deserve death and hell for our sins. John 3:16 'For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him shall be saved.' You may think, 'oh well, i havent murdered anyone, and im a good person, so i think im going to heaven. In Romans 3:10 it says 'As it is written, There is none righteous, no not one.' and Romans 3:23 says 'For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God.' then romans 5:8 says 'But God so commendeth his love for us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.' For the wages of sin is DEATH, BUT the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 2 seconds after you die it isnt gonna matter what you wore to work, it isnt gonna matter what car you drove or who you know. The only thing thats gonna matter is if you know Jesus Christ. After death, it is an eternity. Think of eternity like this: It begins when a little sparrow takes a mouth full of water from the Gulf of Mexico and flys to the moon. it takes it 58 years to get there. it flys back. it gets another mouthfull of water. It does this untill every drop of water on this earth is gone and put on the moon. Then that sparrow takes a mouthfull of the water on the moon and flys to earth and puts that water on the ground and starts all over again. that is just the beginning of eternity. would you want to be in eternal torment? or with God being so happy and with no worries at all? all you have to do is Believe in him, that he died for you and if you were the only sinnner in the ENTIRE world, he wouldve done the same thing. heres a prayer you can pray if you believe this and you want him to save you:

Dear Jesus,
Forgive me of my sins.
Come into my heart today.
I trust you to take me to heaven when i die.
Thank your for saving me.
Help me to live for you,
Amen.

and if you really meant that and prayed it, your now saved. there is such a peace that you feel, and its amazing. its nothing like it.

and if everybody here thinks this is rubbish and doesnt believe it, i dont think i should stay on this board anymore.

Firstly D and F is a open board for most views that are represented in the western world (Including Australia) which means your entitled to your belief in Christianity as are you to argue your point, so too are people to disagree against your view if they don’t agree. I doubt to be honest anyone here would not welcome you with your belief; religious faith for most isn’t all that big a part of a person.

At the bottom you say that if people don’t believe what you are saying then it’s something negative and you should leave, which I think is unfair :( . It’s almost like blackmail; my participation, my friendship for your belief in the god I chose to believe in.

For me as I’ve said countless times I haven’t a problem with anyone’s spiritual ideas or aspirations, if you think you’re going to heaven or going to be reincarnated its all the same. The problem for me comes when huge numbers of followers use religious texts as a form of justification for sickening deeds in the world; the boys in that article were murdered because they thought it was what their god would have wanted. For me I can’t ever envision a god asking its followers to kill, imprison yes, to take the life that god gave them? No way.

After years of education and watching how the world works, I only see people doing things “in the name of god” that inflict more suffering and damage than if people are just left to live as they chose. After all free will is the basics of most religions, to me that suggests choice.

and i totally understand. the only reason i said that (about leaving) is because i think that i should be asociating my self with other christian people. nothing against yall or anything because you maybe the nicest person in the world, but i dont know. and plus my life is realllllyyyyy busy and the computer isnt at the top of my list right now. no offence you guys. sorry i kinda like went all big when i did that last post, but i dont know, it just kinda angered me, well im not angry, i just feel strongly about it. i dont know what kind of feeling that is, whether is anger, or something else.

Completely understand where you’re coming from <lol> . I’d love to spend time with people who only have my views on things and just live in happy land, but deep down I know that it’s not reality, and I enjoying questioning my own beliefs, working out where others are coming from and seeing if I can still see my view in a fully supported way. I.e. I think animal testing is wrong, but what’s the point of only listening to people who agree, its better to hear what the “enemy” has to say on the matter to think about it more and try and understand people, rather than just shouting "its wrong its wrong", becuase it gets you know where.

I get your desire too :hee: , put easy that’s what I have when I tried to tell people how great Lost is, it was like a frenzy to get them to like it because they had too! It’s hard to explain I agree, but think they are similar feelings. :thinky:

As for your belief and spending time with like minded people, I’d say it all depends on your feelings on it. Some people over in the UK know there is a god and don’t need to go to church to confirm it to them, others need it more so as reinsurance.

My belief is meeting different people helps shape you as a unique person, it doesn’t have to change what you are. I would be disappointed if you decided to spend only time with Christians as it would mean you’d have to leave the board in order to do that, but again its all down to free will. Hope you stick around, but if you have to leave....

QUOTE (Knuxs @ Aug 7 2005, 09:44 AM)

One thing I'm not sure on... Do Christians really not believe in evolution? Because if Adam and Eve were the only humans doesn’t that mean they had to have committed incest over and over to get to where we are today?

commeted incest? ugh big words....anyways, i am a christian, and no we really dont believe in evolution because matter can not some how make something else like that...matter can not be turned into anything like that....adam and eve werent the only ones, first ones yes...they had lots of kids, sure the kids had to sleep w/ each other in order to bring us here lol but thats the way it had to be....and i completely agree w/ what kimberly_monaghan said...

QUOTE

wow. reading that article was kind of a turn off. not about the han solo and the tom cruise part though. thats the 1st thing that made me not like dom more. i disagree with everything he believes. yall might not want to go into a religous disscussion, but i do, because i feel sostrongly about it. i believe that there is a God, he loves us, but he is a just God in that if you do something wrong, he punishes it. He is omnipresent, and he knows everything, and he is real, right now. He just as real as when he created adam and eve. I believe that Jesus was the Son of God and that he came to earth and died on the cross for our sins, and rose again the thrid day. I read my bible and pray everyday, not because i have to, but because i want to. God is so great and so mighty and he didnt have to love us. He chose to come and save us. He would still be the same great, just, and loving God that he is now if he didnt come and save us and sent us all to hell. because if you arent saved, thats where your going when you die. We dont deserve to go to heaven. we deserve death and hell for our sins. John 3:16 'For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him shall be saved.' You may think, 'oh well, i havent murdered anyone, and im a good person, so i think im going to heaven. In Romans 3:10 it says 'As it is written, There is none righteous, no not one.' and Romans 3:23 says 'For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God.' then romans 5:8 says 'But God so commendeth his love for us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.' For the wages of sin is DEATH, BUT the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 2 seconds after you die it isnt gonna matter what you wore to work, it isnt gonna matter what car you drove or who you know. The only thing thats gonna matter is if you know Jesus Christ. After death, it is an eternity. Think of eternity like this: It begins when a little sparrow takes a mouth full of water from the Gulf of Mexico and flys to the moon. it takes it 58 years to get there. it flys back. it gets another mouthfull of water. It does this untill every drop of water on this earth is gone and put on the moon. Then that sparrow takes a mouthfull of the water on the moon and flys to earth and puts that water on the ground and starts all over again. that is just the beginning of eternity. would you want to be in eternal torment? or with God being so happy and with no worries at all? all you have to do is Believe in him, that he died for you and if you were the only sinnner in the ENTIRE world, he wouldve done the same thing. heres a prayer you can pray if you believe this and you want him to save you:

Dear Jesus,
Forgive me of my sins.
Come into my heart today.
I trust you to take me to heaven when i die.
Thank your for saving me.
Help me to live for you,
Amen.

and if you really meant that and prayed it, your now saved. there is such a peace that you feel, and its amazing. its nothing like it.

and if everybody here thinks this is rubbish and doesnt believe it, i dont think i should stay on this board anymore.

QUOTE (somberchaos123 @ Aug 10 2005, 12:50 AM)

commeted incest? ugh big words....anyways, i am a christian, and no we really dont believe in evolution because matter can not some how make something else like that...matter can not be turned into anything like that....adam and eve werent the only ones, first ones yes...they had lots of kids, sure the kids had to sleep w/ each other in order to bring us here lol but thats the way it had to be....and i completely agree w/ what kimberly_monaghan said...

:o From a scientific point of view I find it incredibly hard to see that as plausible, the only way that Adam and Eve's children could produce healthy fertile offspring would be to have totally different genetic pools! Thus not even be human! You’d be getting mutations and deformities in the children like you would today if you slept with your brother or sister. Don’t Christians think incest is wrong anyway? So if our “founding fathers and mothers” did it isn’t that a bit hypocritical?

If you can explain please do as I honestly cant get my head around it. (N)

QUOTE (Knuxs @ Aug 10 2005, 06:57 PM)

QUOTE (somberchaos123 @ Aug 10 2005, 12:50 AM)

commeted incest? ugh big words....anyways, i am a christian, and no we really dont believe in evolution because matter can not some how make something else like that...matter can not be turned into anything like that....adam and eve werent the only ones, first ones yes...they had lots of kids, sure the kids had to sleep w/ each other in order to bring us here lol but thats the way it had to be....and i completely agree w/ what kimberly_monaghan said...

:o From a scientific point of view I find it incredibly hard to see that as plausible, the only way that Adam and Eve's children could produce healthy fertile offspring would be to have totally different genetic pools! Thus not even be human! You’d be getting mutations and deformities in the children like you would today if you slept with your brother or sister. Don’t Christians think incest is wrong anyway? So if our “founding fathers and mothers” did it isn’t that a bit hypocritical?

If you can explain please do as I honestly cant get my head around it. (N)

exactly what I was thinking.

personally i don't really know if I believe in God. Its quite challenging for me to think "do i; or do i not believe on God". I think it would be very against ME if i said i did totally believe in Him and everything He had done; also it would be the same to say i DON'T believe in him. you see my confusion?

i suppose i have never really been around all the Church and God things all my life except in primary school. I got given a bible in, i think, year 8 and i looked at it for a while. i think some of the stuff it says in there are really really powerful.

Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.

i love that so much. not that it was in PF, but because it shows greatness and power. i admire power.. mwahahaha. sorry...

but yes, i believe in the Darwin way's. we evolved from little organisms and bacteria and over millions of years we evolved into the, excuse my thoughts, human stain. oh yes, the animals and plants evolved too, but seriously, wouldn't it all be great if we would just take a look at what we've done and realise that alot of it has ruined our beautiful earth.

but yes, back to the religion. recently i have had thoughts that yes, the church and its influences are quite bad when we see the whole "killing people because god says so" and "no protection when having sex" i mean COME ON, there are enough people on this world as it is and seriously, if you want to stop AIDS from spreading then i think the Catholics should revise some of the things they say is "the way of God" and realise that this is doing more harm to the human species.

i am a very Narcissistic and negative sometimes and talking about what these Christian people has brought out more of it. Back in 2003-04 there were cases here in Australia about the Priests and Church people (don't know names) that were abusing the rights to the teaching of religion by molesting young children, boys in particular, and covering it up because of very powerful links to the Vatician/very important religious places.

I think this is SO wrong, how they can just *pooff* magic something away because they have the power, and must i say, "right" to commit these atrocities and get away with it..

didn't religious beliefs KILL those two young men who were gay? commiting "homosexual behaviour". i dearsay, isn't a priest getting with a young boy, commiting "homosexual behaviour"?? correct me if i am wrong.

not that i am saying ALL religious figures do this! no no no no nooo wrong there. but it makes me angry how things can just get "covered up", as it does.

maybe its a conspiracy...

but that the end of my rant. might be more to come later. i really believe that it is important for people to believe in things. i admire people who are passionate about things and religion is one of them. Kimberly, this relates to you. It is great that you strongly believe in those things and that is what makes people individual. thank you all

but it would be too hard for me to find a group of people that i can totally relate to in exactly the same thoughts. i am too ... odd... please not think i am some ranting loser who had horrible thoughts and perceptions about the world. i believe what i believe and yes, hearing the "other side's" perception of the story does give one new things to contemplate about the topic.

midless trivia: this is longer then my english essay... <lol>

I think this is a great topic. I feel that by shareing our belifes we better
learn to understand one another. If only world leaders would listen
to each other better we might not have so many problems. As I said
before, live and let live. When it comes to religion, we're all right, and
we're all wrong. Cause none of us will REALLY know till we die. Right?
Just keep your faith, what ever it may be, do harm to none, and love your
fellow man.
Blessed Be,
Faolan

QUOTE (Faolan @ Aug 10 2005, 02:45 PM)

I think this is a great topic. I feel that by shareing our belifes we better
learn to understand one another. If only world leaders would listen
to each other better we might not have so many problems. As I said
before, live and let live. When it comes to religion, we're all right, and
we're all wrong. Cause none of us will REALLY know till we die. Right?
Just keep your faith, what ever it may be, do harm to none, and love your
fellow man.
Blessed Be,
Faolan

Exactly! There are few people who would say that private worship is wrong, but it’s the way that some people feel its their duty to tell people how to live which gets right on my ****, but what’s worse is things like this:

(Maddy)

QUOTE

“Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.”

Here it clearly states that if you “poison or destroy my brothers” then your suffer at the hands of the lord. In that case why do some Christians kill people who carry out abortions? That to me is simply doing something which god has said is wrong, to kill “brothers” or fellow men, why not just let them be and suffer eternal damnation or the “vengeance” at the end? Instead they take it upon themselves to blow up clinics with people inside just doing a job.

If I were a women and raped, I don’t think I’d be able to give birth and raise that child in the same way as if she were a product of a loving relationship. There are reasons for abortion, yes some I think are wrong, i.e. as a form of contraception, but others can have a more adverse effect if the embryo is allowed fully devlope. Its too easy to put things as black and white and don’t factor reality into account.

that was INCREDIBLY well put Faolan!

where do they do THAT? because ive never heard of people killing women who got abortions. if they were really Christians (or people with any CONSCIENCE at all) they wouldnt do that. that woman is gonna have to live the rest of her life knowing that she ended her babies life. i think thats punishment enough, like you said.

QUOTE (i_heart_Dom @ Aug 10 2005, 04:16 PM)

that was INCREDIBLY well put Faolan!

where do they do THAT? because ive never heard of people killing women who got abortions. if they were really Christians (or people with any CONSCIENCE at all) they wouldnt do that. that woman is gonna have to live the rest of her life knowing that she ended her babies life. i think thats punishment enough, like you said.

It was in the news a fair bit over here, so it was big news. It was in the states this happened! A few years ago now, we talked about it loads in our ethics class...a group of pro life followers were blowing up the clinics, not targeting women individually but people were inside the building. Pro lifers tend to have the belief that life is a gift from god, so quite often they are religious. Like most of the world, views on the matter were divided, still its the same as the death penalty over there, your committing murder because someone else did, it just doesn’t seem right...

wow. thats horrible! i think any group that is committing an act of violence "in the name of the lord" is just a bunch of crap! they just want something to "justify" what they did and NOTHING can do that.

QUOTE (Knuxs @ Aug 10 2005, 03:57 AM)

QUOTE (somberchaos123 @ Aug 10 2005, 12:50 AM)

commeted incest? ugh big words....anyways, i am a christian, and no we really dont believe in evolution because matter can not some how make something else like that...matter can not be turned into anything like that....adam and eve werent the only ones, first ones yes...they had lots of kids, sure the kids had to sleep w/ each other in order to bring us here lol but thats the way it had to be....and i completely agree w/ what kimberly_monaghan said...

:o From a scientific point of view I find it incredibly hard to see that as plausible, the only way that Adam and Eve's children could produce healthy fertile offspring would be to have totally different genetic pools! Thus not even be human! You’d be getting mutations and deformities in the children like you would today if you slept with your brother or sister. Don’t Christians think incest is wrong anyway? So if our “founding fathers and mothers” did it isn’t that a bit hypocritical?

If you can explain please do as I honestly cant get my head around it. (N)

yes its true that you would prolly end up w/ mutated ppl cause they slept w/ their siblings...but in order to re-produce, God made it so they wouldnt, they were the first(or second) generation ever, and the first ppl were not as flawed as we are today because we have a heck of a lot more sin than they did back then. thus the reason they lived longer lives than we do. and yeah we do believe that incest is wrong, but in those days...it did not seem as wrong because they had no one else and they needed to reproduce.

QUOTE (i_heart_Dom @ Aug 11 2005, 01:41 AM)

wow. thats horrible! i think any group that is committing an act of violence "in the name of the lord" is just a bunch of crap! they just want something to "justify" what they did and NOTHING can do that.

exactly my point Katie. i think it is totally wrong how things can just be covered up and/or forgotten about.

isn't the law made to br as fair and as equal for everyone? so when these, christians, just simply use their connections to cover something up, isn't that breaking the law? isn't that wrong? eh? correct me if i'm wrong, but this is wrong. i don't read the bible or anything, but doesn't it say everyone should be equal and all that jazz?

QUOTE (somberchaos123 @ Aug 10 2005, 08:54 PM)

yes its true that you would prolly end up w/ mutated ppl cause they slept w/ their siblings...but in order to re-produce, God made it so they wouldnt, they were the first(or second) generation ever, and the first ppl were not as flawed as we are today because we have a heck of a lot more sin than they did back then. thus the reason they lived longer lives than we do. and yeah we do believe that incest is wrong, but in those days...it did not seem as wrong because they had no one else and they needed to reproduce.

So you’re saying that people have deformities and illness today because their parents had sin :o ? What about things like DNA and genetics how can Christians argue that it doesn’t exist when there is visible proof, things we can see with our own eyes and test with experiments. What is "science" to Christains?

As for the incest that’s beyond hypercritical, if its wrong now then it should have always been wrong, morality shouldn’t change over time, its solid and fixed. Or else cant we just say "Oh today I wont follow the bible I think I'll go to my Sunday job and earn some money".

I’m honestly trying hard to get my head around this :thinky: , but its just sounding like a ridiculous put together story that doesn’t fix together at all! HELP!

Please please dont take offence at this next question but what on earth are they teaching you at school if your not taking science lessons? (Over here in the UK everyone HAS to take physics, chemistry and biology.)

I'm so confused its not even funny. :(

im sure ALL schools take science. since nobody knows how we really did get here, im pretty sure we never study evolution or anything. science is one of my favorite subjects. i dont know what id do without it!

last year my science teacher asked the class to write down how we think the world was created. we had to read our answers out loud. at the end of it, she just said that all of our answers were right and wrong because nobody really does know. scientists only have theories of what they think probably happened based on their knowledge. its been millions of years and we still dont even know how the dinosaurs became extinct, we only have different theories.

so i guess thats what religion is all about. you just believe in your theory and stick to it till the end.

quite frankly i am all for it about the science. there have been tests, there is validated research; not just what someone has written in a book. do not take offence at this either, but seriously, could the bible be just a story, or a figment of someone's, very talented, imagination? you know there is a possibility that this may be all it is. does anyone even know the truth? maybe the Vatician does? maybe it is real? maybe it was aliens...

but thats not the point. yes there ARE theories, refering to the science, and yes we don't know if the bible and/or the testaments are indeed real. but what i do know is that people are eithere here, there or in between. i suppose its all muddled up.. hrm

its all too hard!

I've been reading this thread and I had no intention of participating in it. I have my own views. But now that we're talking about who wrote the bible and all. I just have one question.

How old is it? and who did "write" it? Somebody must have written a first draft or anything waaaaayyyy back?

I don't know anything about christian religion. I wasn't raised that way. I think it's partially because of the kind of church my grandmother goes to. There's all kinds in Holland. Protestant, Reformed and I don't know what more. My grandmother goes to a church that preaches the heaviest stuff. About how everybody is born with the sins of their forefathers. My grandmother is a wonderful person. She wouldn't hurt a fly, never talks ill of anybody. She goes to church, reads the bible. She's a good person. And yet she so afraid. Afraid of dying because those priests or whatever she calls them, tell her she's going to hell. People they call elders sometimes come over to her house and tell her the most awful things. My grandmother doesn't deserve that. Why are my actions and my mums actions her fault. And why should she go to hell for that. But that's what they tell her. Because my mum has a job. In her church that's considered extremely BAD. And there's more things. That makes me sad. Extremely sad. My grandmother is living her life in fear. In my view, that's not what life was meant for.

Deep down in my heart I hope there is a heaven. Just so people like my grandma can go there. And it wasn't all for nothing.

I just wanted to share this.

I dont know what I think. To be fair we dont know everything.

But you christains seem really into it, i should respect you, but i dont like your attitudes, if i dont want to believe in your god then i dont have to and everyday you get people going around saying you have to find god, its disgusting and foul. (Grrr!) yeah sounds harsh but its annoying, you dont believe in evolution, its messed up. you can SEE it look at MRSA its a super bug thats evloved to resist normal medicene.

yeah you have faith but to say that evolution doesnt exist is plain stupid.

I like to think that adam and eve dont even exist god made the earth but didnt make man, man evolved and found god like he knew they would, humans found god over time that is all. Why I think this? because what if there is other life out there on other worlds, did god make them too? No dont think so

thats my view on things anyway.

A MAN wrote the bible, a human being. And we as humans are falable.
Stories change with each telling. Look at how rumors get going.
King James himself changed the bible. I don't know the exact passage,
but it now reads,"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." But if you go
back, it was originaly, "Thou shalt not suffer the thief to live."
I also study Qabala, the elemental qabala, and if you know any
thing about the Hebrew alphabet, you'll know that every letter
has more than one meaning. The first letter, Aleph means cave,
or home. If you look at it in this way, then the bible is writen in
code. Not really ment to be taken literaly. Now I'm not going all Davinci
code on you, but, a code non the less. When you study other religions
you can find out so many interesting things about other people.

Miranda, thats terrible! ive never heard of priests just telling someone that theyre going to hell. all i know about the Protestant religion is that, its part of why the American colonists wanted to leave England. i think that if your grandma believes in God and has been a good person, shell surely go to heaven. its not fair to have a priest scare her like that. (N)

how the bible was written, wasnt it passed on to different people to add to it?

Mosher, i know this has turned into a discussion about religion, but you just completely BASHED Christianity. every other person whose posted here has been respectful when they question a religion. that was just straight up calling it stupid. everyone has a right to there own opinion and thats yours. but personally i dont think I'm STUPID.

QUOTE (Mosher @ Aug 11 2005, 01:39 PM)

I dont know what I think. To be fair we dont know everything.

But you christains seem really into it, i should respect you, but i dont like your attitudes, if i dont want to believe in your god then i dont have to and everyday you get people going around saying you have to find god, its disgusting and foul. (Grrr!) yeah sounds harsh but its annoying, you dont believe in evolution, its messed up. you can SEE it look at MRSA its a super bug thats evloved to resist normal medicene.

yeah you have faith but to say that evolution doesnt exist is plain stupid.

I like to think that adam and eve dont even exist god made the earth but didnt make man, man evolved and found god like he knew they would, humans found god over time that is all. Why I think this? because what if there is other life out there on other worlds, did god make them too? No dont think so

thats my view on things anyway.

That’s certainly a very good example :YES: I totally forgot about MRSA, but if my memory serves me right we didn’t do evolution in huge detail until we were about 15/16… MRSA is also perhaps the main reason why I fail to believe that evolution doesn’t exist. There are black people in greater numbers in hot countries because darker skin pigmentation provides more protection from the sun, humans today are taller than they were only a 100 years ago, and MRSA is a speeded up version of evolution, you can as you put it “SEE” it in progress.

If the members who had posted that view about evolution not existing after they had completed full education, I wouldn’t feel too bad about changeling that belief more viciously, if they simply haven’t covered it yet then its only fair we try to educate rather than “lay in to that belief”.

I also agree about the forcing belief, OK if there was some proof like evolution for example, I’d be more egger to pay attention but that’s all it is a view on something, installing fear about hell if you don’t start to follow that view is scary and IMO totally unfair. If I kept telling you you'd die when you are 50 unless you go to the shop down the road everyday, you'd have no evidence that what I was saying was true, so should you take a chance that I'm wrong, or do you play along just in case I'm right?

There is education and then there is intense persuasion. Still I agree with Katie, until you can prove that the Christians here are following a false god you shouldn’t be so dismissive of views.

Miranda I feel so bad about your grandmother. From my perspective I see it as fairly simple, (This is only my view it may or may not be true)

Parents are the primary enforcer with rules onto their children.
If you threat the parents with punishment for your child’s sins your gonna work harder at making them conform to societies rules. Right?

I’m sorry to say that that’s something I feel strongly on, I just can’t see you being punished for your child’s misdemeanours. :NO: It just sounds like a way to keep order.

QUOTE (Tigerlily @ Aug 11 2005, 02:11 AM)

[color=purple]I've been reading this thread and I had no intention of participating in it. I have my own views. But now that we're talking about who wrote the bible and all. I just have one question.

How old is it? and who did "write" it? Somebody must have written a first draft or anything waaaaayyyy back?

the Bible was written by 44+ people but they were given, or inspired, to write by God. the people that wrote it were either there to experience the things that happened or were told of them by someone else, and God inspired them to write it down. The Bible is basically Gods way of talking to us through text. it gives you info on how you should live your life for God and how to witness and pray and all that. it was originally written in greek, hebrew, and i think roman. its about 4000=5000 years old i believe.

and sorry to hear how those priests treat your grandmother. some older churches do that. i dotn know why and i think its stupid. but if she does have faith in God and does believe in Him, im sure she'll make it into heaven

Miranda thats reminds me of my Oma in Holland. She is really christian, and heavily into all that God and Church stuff. Maybe i should email her asking about what she does and all that jazz. but i don't think it would be eithical for a priest, of all people, telling his followers of god, by telling them they are all going to hell. actually thats just plain wrong.

Mosher i respect your view on the whole christian thing and how they go round telling everyone they should find God; and like i said, everyone has their own views.

personally i don't really have anything wrong with what you've said.

QUOTE

I like to think that adam and eve dont even exist god made the earth but didnt make man, man evolved and found god like he knew they would, humans found god over time that is all. Why I think this? because what if there is other life out there on other worlds, did god make them too? No dont think so

you made a very good point about the "god made the earth but didnt make man, man evolved and found god like he knew they would". this, well what i reckon, is a good theory that not many people have realised in this discussion. (its making me think now... :thinky: )

The whole not believing in evolution thing just gets me fired up again. i'm sorry, but i'm a strong believer in that we evolved from little organisms and all that jazz and this is how we came to be. not that i'm saying we came from apes, that could be a load of bull (even though there is conclusive information saying otherwise), but all i am saying is, maybe christians should "think outside the square". not be TOLD what to do. how to act. what to THINK; but grow an awareness of the world around them.

not that i am saying they don't. oh no no no no! some probably do.

i can't be the judge of people and their religion. nobody can. i believe everyone can have their own religion for their own personal use. yes maybe its a sense of community when there are great numbers of christians/catholics, and this is fine too.

yes rich. i suppose it would be fairer if posters have a full idea and understanding of evolution before they come on here. look who's talking! (me!) and i haven't finished school yet but i understand it all. i do the reading, and the subjects, and find a personal interest in this area. but yes, if you don't understand it, or haven't learnt about it, then maybe you should do some research and read up on these things before you say "i am very against it" and other statements of the like.

better get back to the communists... (for school derrr)

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