What do you think? Personally I don’t hold much faith in marriage, there is a high divorce rate and if my brother ever wanted to celebrate his love with his boyfriend (who is just so cute >< ) he wouldn’t be able to in a church. So before a guy proposes to me and I accept (very doubtful) I don’t think its wrong to have sex before marriage.

I moved in with Jim after just 2 weeks, our son was born 18 months later, our daughter was born 20 months after that, and we got married when she was 13 months old (James and Mary were pageboy and bridesmaid for me). I firmly believe that you should live with some-one for at least 6 months before you marry them, coz you never really know some-one until you've lived with them for a while.

I'm glad that gay people can get married in Holland. I love having a choice. ><() I could marry a guy or a girl depending on my mood. (Rolly)
Seriously: I don't think I ever will get married. It's not something that's very high on my list. If you love each other, you don't have to be married to know.
On the other hand: if I ever meet someone and have kids with them, then I think I should get married. It's easier.

Because I’m not gay I cant really comment, but from what I’ve grasped over here, from my brother and his guy (did I tell you he is cute! (SNake> ) they don’t want to get married anyway and just want the same legal rights as married couples, like will things and the right to act as next of kin. I can’t speak for all gay men or girls at all, and I know there are a few on this board, it would be great if you could comment. Do you want the right to be able to marry?

It sounds quite liberal in Holland, isn’t it legal to carry out mercy killing too? (Hmmmm)

I never really thought about kids, I dont want to give my name up, so maybe he or she could have both. <C>> Have to wait and see.

Times have changed. But Ive always thought sex before marriage was no big deal. But having sex at my age (17) I feel is wrong. Theres no point, besides, half of my school is pregnant. There not very responsible, and I dont have to have that responsibilty, at my age. (N)

I plan to get married (hopefully). #haha#

I sure wanna get married one day, if I'm ever going to find Mr. Right that is. We gays can kinda like get married here in Germany and we also have some rights like straight maried couples. Still it's unfortunately not accepted as a "real" marriage. We can only hope that time will change things and that this crappy christian blahblah some of our politics are keeping on to will not make them forget to see that marriage happens because of love. And no one should have the right to forbid two people who love each other to get married.

As for the sex before marriage thing: for me definitely a yes!

since im only 13, ofcourse im not doing anything of that nature but i was raised to wait until marriage and i plan on sticking to that. but i voted i dont have a choice, because i dont really have a choice whether i want to or not.

i know someone who doesnt want to kiss a guy until theyre married and thats a bit ridiculous

not really on topic or anything, but to answer your question: it's not like any doctor can just do that. There's probably like a gazillion rules.
An ex co-worker of mine went to work for the company that's busy developping a pill called the pill of drion (if I recall corretcly) its a three stage pill like thing that you can take to end your life. Of course that will only be available for people who are terminally ill. In the first stage you can still change you mind, but once you take the second pill there's no way back. She left a couple of years ago so I don't have a clue how far they are on developping that pill.

And to Katie. Good for you girl. I admire people who believe in something and actually try to stick with it.

I reckon gays and lesbians should be able to do whatever straights can do!!! I am PRO- gayism and lebianism!!!

(woW>

I dunno about waiting until I'm married........The tempation may be too great........

(&*"£> ><()

sex before marriage isn't really that bad, I think. You should know him/her really well before you get marry, and I think sex is one part of it.
But sometimes I can't believe how soon people have sex. And when it doesn't seems to work out with that person, It's another name on your list. That's not so good. But everyone should do whatever he/she like with his/her life, so I don't 'blame' the people who are 'easy'. I'm just not on of them. (Sometimes feels like i'm the only one who isn't :unsure: )

A friend of mine died a few weeks ago, he had cancer and wouldn't get better, so when he said the time was right he said goodbye to all the people he cared about and the doctor gave an injection so he would go to sleep..... I'm glad it's legal here!


About sex before marriage, i voted yes.
I don't think i'll ever get married tough....

I didn't think this was an issue anymore. But I voted no just to be awkward, but not to be honest, because I really do not care what people do. Anyway, I have always had sex before marriage, or else I would never have had it and God knows you have to take your chances in this life. I am obviously gay, that's why.
But I voted "no" just to be bloody minded because if times have changed so what? For thousands of years we had no zsex before marriage or else you would be ostracised at best or hung drawn and quartered at worst; now most people have sex before marriage. That is probably as lot healthier, especially healthier than being hung, drawn and quartered, but it has only been accceptable for thirty years. I mean crikey I can remember a girl being brought into my Mum and Dad's house by priests to get a doctor to see if she was pregnant, because that meant if she had sex it would be a mortal sin (even though she was about to get a life into the world). We don't want that do we? Perhaps we are better today? (woW>

So what can be concluded from this morass. Our society is better for tolerating multisexualities including sex before marriage, but we are on uncharted territory because no society has ever had such tolerance up till now; so maybe God will smite us down. :)

Kevviewhit

Personally I think sex before marriage is fine, and waiting is just silly. In the past once you were married that’s it, it was really hard to get a divorce, you would bring great shame on your family and the wives would get very little anyway.

Today males and females seem more liberal than ever before, you can go to a club pick someone up have your wicked way and then carry on with life, with readily available contraception there is less risk of any nasty repercussions. I don’t sleep around and don’t think I ever would, the repercussion for me would be pretty strong in the sense that I like to have an emotional attachment to people especially people I would be willing to sleep with.

Anyone who waits because they love someone, I admire them. I think :YES: . But as most of you have mildly suggested sex is part of married life, and before you do that I think it would be good to at least experience that aspect, then again if you sharing each others cherries ><() as someone once put it, it means so much more.

I think a lot of young people are seriously thinking of waiting to be able to "share each others cherries". There are these "celibacy before marriage groups in the States and I have heard that it is spreading over here #haha#

For me as a teenager it was all about romance, and I would have been quite happy to have waited until the right guy came alone. But the gay world did not work out that way, to say the least; so it did not happen that way for me. <craze>

But I have read people say that there is something really special about popping each others cherries if you have waited. I never could so I shall never know. It reminds me of a book by that bloke Sting wrote a song about--Quentin Crisp, How I Became A Virgin (1981) ("Englishman in New York"). I would like to become a virgin again. Yeh, efo. Maybe my next life. (Rolly)

Kevview

Personally I think marriage is incredibly outdated and I can't believe that I will ever get married. I have now been with my partner for 15 years, we have lived together for 12 of those and have a son. No one seems bothered that we aren't married and most people who don't know we aren't think we are anyway! #haha# The only thing that may encourage us to marry is so that we could all have the same surname and the fact that my partner has no parental control over our son in the eyes of the law, despite being named as his father on the birth certificate and our son having his surname.

I'm surprised that so many people still get married to be quite honest, especially given how high the divorce rate is these days. I tend to get the impression that a lot of people get married just to have a "lovely day" and get a nice set of photos! <lol> I know it sounds harsh, but I have known people who have spent thousands of pounds on their wedding only to split up a year or so later. I just can't see the point I'm afraid.

I can't see the problem with people having sex before marriage, but I do think people should save it for a relationship rather than sleeping with someone different everytime they go out! It should be special and I can't see how it can be if you have only just met the person or are so drunk you don't really know what you are doing!

For a lot of people, though, marriage continues to be vitally important. It makes them have a commitment to their relationship that is recognised by society. It is all right for two individuals to say that they are committed to a relationship but marriage gives that extra recognition by society which for lots of people makes it very special, and even means that when hard times come you can alwyas fall back on that public commitment. :o

Just because there is a rising divorce rate is no reason for there not to be marriage. There are lots of reasons for divorce, but it is mainly because people are living longer than in the past, so that it gets harder to stay together. But I think marriage is alive and well. :)

Not that there is for me the slightest thing wrong for two people to just make a personal commitment. I am not saying that . . .

Kevvo

I'm not waiting until I'm married, but I want to wait until I'm with someone who I know I'm heading that way with. I couldn't do it with anyone, he has to be someone I really like and trust or else it's just not gonna happen! I wanna know that if something went wrong and I got pregnant (mistakes can happen, however careful you are), I'd get support and he wouldn't run a mile.

But I wouldn't wait until we were married because what if you didn't like sex with him and you only figured that out when you were married? Eek!

If that is so, how come the divorce rate is so high and rising all the time?

I think that two people who aren't married can be just as commited to each other, as two people who are married, despite not having societies "approval" to their union. My OH and I have a mortgage and a child together, which I think is probably more of a commitment than standing up in public, saying "I do" and then spending the evening getting drunk. We have been together a lot longer than many married couples manage, even though they have had "that public commitment" to fall back on! Splitting up would be just as hard as a married couple splitting up too, due to the mortgage and our child and I would think long and hard about it, as I would expect a married couple would. My OH's dad actually said the other day, that the main reason to get married these days would be because it makes it a lot easier if you spilt up (legally and financially)! Who said romance was dead?! #haha#

I can't believe that, that is the reason for the rising divorce rate. I would have thought that the majority of couples getting divorced are not older couples who have lived longer than in the past, but younger couples (30's and 40's possibly). They aren't going to be fed up with each other because they have been together for too long, they would have only been married for about 20 years at the most I would have thought!

I agree with you completely Glitter. People who are not married and have not been through the ceremony can be just as committed to each other as those who go through marriage. Hence the fact that there are absolutely loads of long-term gay couples out there!!! It would not be possible if it were simply marriage that let them stay together. :o

I think there are lots of reasons for the divorce rate. Divorce is more common but marriage has stayed popular. I think that is what has happened. You are right. It is after seven years or so that people may get divorced, more than after 25 years or so. Divorce is more common because it is easier, because it is more common, so it is then OK to do, and because people do not see marriage as being as long term as they used to; whether they realise this or not. :)

Marriage is popular because it is that commitment before society that makes it special for people. Some people like all of that palava and the wedding stuff I guess. While some people see a love relationship as a private thing and see no reason to get married. But this is quite knew as hardly anyone lived together outside of marriage until thirty five years ago. (woW>

Kevvo

Is it just me or do things work like this these days. A friend of mine (who didn’t date a lot) met a guy on the Internet. Had a date and did it the first time they met. Again, everybody should do whatever you like, but I think this is way to fast, or do I think in a old fashion way?

It’s possible that she fell for him online and got to know him that way, it might sound weird but without the horrid embarrassment of first dates and being happy to talk online in your own room can sometimes speed a relationship along. That said I think it loses a lot of what makes dating special, when you catch the other person sneaking looks at you, the coy smile that you two share and the pride at getting the joke when no one else has. All silent things that your probley never talk about again, but you both know it. Or even the more basic feelings of knowing what the other person is thinking and finally your minds being entwined in a way that lets you know you both like each other….. being online you just cant get that.

As for sleeping together like that…..I don’t know, I really don’t. I can’t say I wouldn’t do that because I’ve never been there before, but something just wouldn’t feel right. Then again its not much different to a one night stand is it.

The point is really that we are in uncharted territory here. OK people used to meet up via letters or advertisements, but the internet makes this so much moe convenient. It is a new medium so people are really only just getting used to its possibilities. (woW>
However, people have always got it together on first dates. These things happen. I do not think there is anything unusual here, except the extent to which they already knew each other. As for being "old-fashioned", nothing wrong with that. Except that in olden times (the 60s??) people did the same things as today, just not as quickly nor as often. #haha#

Kevvo

Sex before marriage, hell yes! My mom always said, "You don't buy shoes with out tring them on first, do you?"
This comeing from a woman who did waite. As to getting married or not, that's a personal thing. I'm married[11 years] we have been together for a total of18 years. We went to the court house and got married, didn't go for all the BS.
I think here in the states it's still leagel for gays to get married in Hawaii. The best thing to do though, for gays, is have a living will. That way you can give power of attorny[sp] to who ever you want, in case you are ill and can not make leagel or medical decitions for your self. This is acctualy great for anyone.
As for all those kids making the "pleadge" not to have sex before marriage, check the stats on that, the pregnancy, and STD rate is higher in those kids than ones who don't sign the pleadge. One of my best friends is an aids concelor, and he lets me in on the statistics.
Just my little spin on things. And I do applaud[sp] those who wait, your body is your own, do with it as you will. Just don't hurt your self or others.
Faolan
Blessed Be ><

Yeah there is evidence to support that, some research has suggested its something the kids tell there parents to keep them off their “backs”, its rare that your find children signing “wait until your married” pledges if the parents aren’t religious or into it. Its that imposed conservative value that I cant stand its oppressive and controlling and doesn’t allow for movement in that belief. I don’t like to continually bring the issue up but its one of the best ones I can think of, in the sates its very divided over gay rights, its not so much the fact that some people disagree with it, that’s fine and I would respect their beliefs, BUT they are grounded in something which is just plain ridiculous quoting from a book that’s thousands of years old and seeming to have a selective reading ability by choosing to ignore some of the other “demands” anyone who shops or works to make money on Sunday is going to hell, women should be brought in markets. Etc. The bible pretty much answers all your questions if you look hard enough, its contradictory and a pain in the arse. So when I see parents “forcing” their children to sign something that was the norm 50 years ago makes me so angry when that value is gone and replaced with a different one, people refusing to accept change is my biggest hate.

><() I'm not saying you should all go out and sleep with people right now, I just think if your not doing it because its expected of you rather than being your totally free choice, then I think that's wrong.

Shoot; I answered wrong on the poll; lol.

I am def. waiting until marraige.. See; I'm kind of the exact oppisite of my friends.. lol. My reason is just my mother wasn't married, and neither was my Grandmother; and both of their boyfriends or whatever left them. And I want to be sure I'm with the right guy; and I trust him alot or whatever. Just personal things.. *shrugs*

BUT-- Everyone makes such good points! I'm glad I see the other perpective or whatever..




Tanya

I think this is why a lot of younger people are thinking twice before they have sex for the first time. They have seen the problems that can happen. This is making for a more conservative younger generation I suspect. Certainly that is what is happening in the States. (woW>

Kevin

i'm pretty neutral on this subject... i was taught that you should wait until marriage but it really doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. i don't know. maybe i'm young and stupid. probably so. :ph43r:

In the end its all down to how you feel about marriage, some people hold it in high regard others dont. When you get older you might change your mind either way. I'd just do what I felt happy with to be honest. :thinky:

yeah. whatever makes you feel good.... its what you feel inside that matters..



(is everything I say here sound suss??!!??!!??!)

Well I do 'believe' in sex before marriage, believe is a bit strong, I do want to get married some day, but there's no way I could wait that long to have sex! Like they say, you should take the car for a test drive before you decide if you want to buy it. ;) Sex is important, if that doesn't work then how is your marriage going to last?

Sarah (SNake>

Never really was a question for me because I grew up at a time when no one believed in waiting until marriage anymore (woW> and most people here in my area still don't. Besides, marriage was never anything I really planned.

And I agree with Sarah, I can't imagine how a marriage could last when sex doesn't work out. (Rolly)

thats how i was raised, and i just dont want to until im married. i mean, this is the love of your life, the one person in life who makes you the happiest. i just want that to be so special that you only share that with them. and i kind of dont have a choice either, because i really cant take the risk of getting and STD or getting pregnant. 1st of all, my parents would FLIP, and i have too many responsibilities as just a 13 year old, and i cant image that when i become a parent. and about waiting to kiss some one till your married is kind of far-fetched for me, but hey, what ever float your boat.

<lol> I dont know if the question is worded confusingly, but I think its asking more, when you legal to have sex would you, or would you wait until say your 25 when you get married. But I do get your points, and gosh if any parent didnt get mad at their 13 your old daughter having sex they must be pretty bad. :hee:

As I've said before the power of getting married in the UK has fallen quite a bit the last decade or so, divorce is so high some people just dont think there is a point, so I dont know if they would see it as some sort of sin to sleep around.

but hey, what ever float your boat.

hah, that's what dom said in the second disc of TTT EE when he was talking about viggo falling in love with a man of rohan.

/nerdcore.

anyway, I was brought up in a christian family, i don't want to before i'm married, because when you're married it would be just so much more special than just a boyfriend or girlfriend, also you split up with boyfriends and girlfriends, and i really wouldn't want to feel that had done the most special thing ever with someone i'm probably never going to talk to again. i don't know, it's hard to explain how my mind works.

also being a christian i believe that god made man to be with woman. but, that said i also believe that love is love no matter what sort of love, and the government doesn't stop a woman and a man from getting married and taking that next step in declaring their love for each other, so i don't know why they should for man man or woman woman. it just doesn't make sense as i said love is love. and now i'm going to stop rambling on.

I think everyone should do whatever they want. If you want to wait and you feel ok with it, it's a good thing to do, right?
But If you don't want to wait, or can't wait (coz it's a hard thing to do!! :hee: ) you should do it, but always remember the consequences! :YES:

i was/am raised in exactly the same type of home. but im not against gay marrige, and i think they in other countries they should have the same right as straight couples. i think that this is one of THE most important things in your life, and i totally agree with you that i dont want to have sex with someone, and have the risk of breaking up and never seeing that person ever again. i know that you can get a divorce, but im only 13 and i know that when your married you have to work at it. it just doesnt come easy, and if my marrige every starts going down the pooper, i know i will have to give it all ive got, because i dont want to have a divorce, unless it is the LAST thing that we can do. i even took a class about abstinance at church and i signed a promise thing to wait till im married and i plan on keeping it. ok now I'M rambling on, so i'll stop.

I think one of the biggest problems is the closeness of gay marriage and gay rights, it’s easy to lump them together and then think they are the same thing, when in fact they are two totally different issues. (Christian) Marriage is the coming together of two individuals who want their love to be recognized in the eyes of the Christian god, gay rights is the desire for equal opportunities and the simple right of being treated as an equal.


The problem is that both overlap, for example gay couples have very few ways to gain equality or the same benefits of any straight couple, i.e. they can’t act as next of kin, or automatically act as benefite if one partner dies. Most of my gay/straight friends aren’t to fussed about getting married, in fact most don’t really see the point of it at all, if you love someone you don’t need a show of that love for all to see. Of course it’s so programmed into people that they feel the “need” to have it, if you don’t have a mans name and call yourself “Mrs” then you some sort of horrid creepy spinster living in a dark dank house. Clearly if they don’t marry then the straight couples will be no different to the gay couples, they will have none of the “benefits” of being married, but the fundamental point is they have the CHOICE, gay couples don’t, so for the most part when you see gay people arguing that they want the right for gay marriage they want it as a “choice” not necessary as a given fact from god.

The US is perhaps at the forefront of gay marriage and of course gay rights, because both sides feel more strongly about the issues than any other, on one side you have the religious followers arguing that its wrong to be gay and its some sort of “test” from god, although the idea that god gave people free will to chose is often used, it misses the actual point of “free choice” and what it means to be gay. You don’t chose it, and anyone who thinks you should pretend to be straight in order to get along is a very foolish person indeed. The other side has a “minority” group (the term “minority” when applying to gay people is relative) which demands to be treated equal, in fact most “gay rights” ideas have come from the states and seeing as they are heavily still into religion come from a religious source, one argument used is that the bible was never written in English and was ancient Greek/Latin the arguments are very convincing, in short there have been questions raised over the “correctness” of the original biblical translation.

As much as I might think some religions have problems and fail to grasp what it truly means, I will respect them, unless they produce propaganda rubbish, which unfortunately they do all too often. In that context to discriminate against someone based on sexuality and to claim that insight comes from a divine being, is no different to Hitler’s beliefs and actions, which is a very sorry matter :NO: .



BUT I like all three of your views (Rolly) , I don’t know what your parents would say about you discussing these issues, but with a bit of luck your keep some actual realty in your ideas about the world, and maybe in 10/20 years your be there following a religion/belief that was much more modern day value and ultimately it be a more equal place for us to all live, something I'm sure any god would want for his/her people.

edit
I should point out that this is a FREE FORUM/BOARD its designed to make you question your own ideas as well as make others question theirs. Please don’t be coy in posting your own views if you have them, especially if they disagree with the admin :hee: , I would never vindicate cruelty on these boards and that comes from me too. I’d rather have my own beliefs thought about by other posters trying to explain why they think I’m wrong.

So please if you read something you don’t agree with POST!

You have to try before you buy. You wouldn't buy a car before test driving it so its the same with sex before marriage. (--)

My views on sex before marraige is that I don't want to before I get married. I don't want to have to go through the heartache of possibly breaking up afterwards. I feel like you should AT LEAST wait to see if they are committed to you BEFORE you sleep with them, that way, you don't have to worry about breaking up. I have friends who didn't wait and now, they really regret it. I also have a friend who just had a baby 3 months ago. She is 18 and her boyfriend split on her when she told him that she was pregnant. I don't want to have to go through that, so I'm waiting! Besides, with my luck I'd end up pregnant my first time!

And as for gay marriage... I don't agree with it, but I'm not going to be mean to someone who is gay.